It takes a bit for a comic to offend me sufficiently that I'm willing to comment on the artistic skill of the creators. However, sometimes you can only go so far before someone has to call bullshit. These panels in Incredible Hercules #128 fulfill that requirement.
Now it's not the fact that it is Wolverine's crapass son Daken that is the problem here. For those that don't know Daken is Wolverine's long lost and recently discovered son. His powers have been vaguely defined in that apparently by means of exuded pheromones he can be where you are not looking. Other than that he's got the typical Wolverine family healing factor, pretty nasty fighting skills, and of course claws. However, one of his claws comes out from the BOTTOM of his wrist rather than the top. And they're black and naturally sort-of metallic (what?). WOOOOO!
Now, all that aside, the problem here is even though he is stabbing the Greek God of the Netherworld Pluto (6' 5"/520 lbs.) through the chest with only two of his badass Lee Press-Ons, ignoring the fact that they've been miscolored white, is that the friggin' things are about 2.5 to 3 feet long. And where's that third "underclaw" living in that arm? I'll tell you where, in his ass.
The sheer physics of the things are totally impossible. Who has a three-foot forearm to fit those things in? The Hulk maybe. Not Daken. He's actually kinda shrimpy even by Wolverine standards being all skinny and Euro-trash with his tribals and long-ass mowhawk and bad daddy-issues attitude. Absolute and utter fail Marvel Comics and artist Dietrich Smith. D+. Try harder.
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I don't know, I think you protest too much. Daken's claws in this panel are no different than how other artists have had different takes on Wolverines claws, or for that matter, Batman's ears on his cowl? Long, really long, short, really short. If you're going to bust on how you don't like the way a particular artist portrays a character, then fine. But judging an entire company about continuity in character designs failing based on one artists interpretations is ridiculous. As for Daken's other claw? How many times have we seen Wolverine pop two claws or less? Ugh.
ReplyDeleteNope. Not backing down on this. It's a fail. There's a different take and then there's not following the character design spec sheet. You can write this off as artist's interpretation or whatnot if you like. Black does not equal white. Able to fit in the forearm does not mean as long as an eight-year old kid's leg.
ReplyDeleteThis is just more evidence that Marvel is slipping. Trust me, they used to be number one with a bullet in my eyes. But this is a simple thing. "Hey Dietrich, those claws are too long. In fact they're friggin impossible. Try to draw something at least partially realistic."
That's an editorial call.
"Hey colorist, they're the wrong color."
"Hey inker, these are supposed to be smooth and nail-like not knurled like a freakin' unicorn horn."
I am not super critical of stuff like this normally, but this is just one of a number of glaring cock-ups in this issue and when I'm paying $2.99 or even $3.99 for a regular comic, I expect things to follow some sort of pattern between issues and books when it comes to how things look.
Back in the day, Bill Sienkiewicz drew some crazy stylistic stuff in his run on the New Mutants with Dani Moonstar and the Dream Bear/Warlock's dad. However, he stayed true to character designs with no problem. I think you're letting them off too easy. This is laziness at Marvel in my opinion and if they're raising prices for no reason ($3.99 for Thor this month?!?) then I'm raising my goddamn standards. IH #123, HIT THE SHOWERS!
Make that IH #128. I'm so irritated I can't even type. Balls.
ReplyDeleteThe dude's good nothing on Mr. Tan. The jagginess is kinda strange, I'll give ya that. But the length is totally acceptable. Judging from the angle, the claws are going straight up, so foreshortening isn't in play. At the current length, they'd retract just fine since they only have to go back as far as the knuckles. It matches up.
ReplyDeleteI don't know nuthin' about no colors though. Out of my nerd range. I'll point out that his claws seem to be pretty much the same color in Dark Avengers. This is to disguise that fact that he is playing at being Wolverine in the public's eye. This also explains the whole missing 3rd claw from the wrist. Since that's just a dead giveaway it ain't Wolverine.
So, if you fail this based on your claw logics, then you fail Dark Avengers as well. Which if I recall correctly, you love.
Confuso much?
Also Devil, it's not two claws only that bugs me. It's the fact that somewhere in the anatomy of that arm is a third claw that is supposed to be a meter long according to the other two. I guess when it's in his arm it sticks out the back of his elbow. Ugh indeed.
ReplyDeleteAlright, more panels to follow tonight. I chose this one because it was easy to scan. The lead up panels to this one perhaps would have been better but I didn't want to possibly tear out the excellent quality staples and paper trying to get a good scan. Stay tuned.
ReplyDeleteAck*3. I do like the story in Dark Avengers too but if it is how yu say (I can't recall) then yes, fail, fail, fail all around.
Also, let me be straight here. The reason I'm giving Marvel a thumbs down here and not just the artist is that he's not the only one who does this book. At some point an editor should have said,"This is weird?" or "Why are we doing this?"
ReplyDeleteThey used to give out No Prizes for this sort of stuff but now it is chocked up to artistic license. I see it as a change in attitude/direction and I for one, don't care for it.
Man, you should just stop reading comics. They obviously aren't drawn well (to realistic claw in forearm storing standards), the colors aren't right (even though the claws have been white to off white for months), and the prices are too high. Just give up! If this seems extreme, that's my point. This is just silly!
ReplyDeleteAs I said before from Kirby to Deodato, and on and on everyone has they're way of interpreting characters. It's strange that you have busted a nut to draw a line in the sand about this one panel. I think the Coach should hit the showers and let cooler heads prevail, cause you've been ejected from the game!!!
It's a comic book. This is supposed to be fun. Story crap is bound to slip. If you want to stick it to the man, then download one of the 900 billion .cbr torrents out there and pay nothing.
ReplyDeleteKeep "fails" about amusing stuff and such. If you want to fuck with Marvel's editors, go to NYC and wait in their lobby.
Or start a post "why editorial is sucking wind".
I don't give up. My opinion stands. And Daken sucks.
ReplyDeleteFUN KILLER powers activate!!!
ReplyDeleteOk ok, nothing more to see here. This is getting dumb. It ain't worth it.
ReplyDelete@Devil: Sweete pie, mayhaps you could put some of this writing energy into an actual post instead of comments. It's easier to crit than to create after all. I'd like to see more from you.
@Coachy: Darlin' you stick to your guns all you want. As you should. But keep the comments in the realm of the post itself. IE, the ART in this case.
Didn't feel right to blame it all on the artist (since I know guys like my sweet Devil know very well how to draw and how hard it is), but it's still a fail in my book.
ReplyDeleteCan't draw black on black...shit don't show up. Claws would just disappear. Unless you do that really lame white border around the shapes to break up the two different masses. And to try to apply real world mechanics to comics - that's just an EPIC fail to put in THE FAIL BLOG. Comics are all about breaking rules. Hell, if you wanted things to look all proper and stuff, you'd end up having drawings of your favorite super hero looking like one of our favorite pirates...
ReplyDeletehttp://www.stargods.org/GayPirate.jpeg
No, instead, you have smooth males and buxom females which gravity has absolutely no power over.
Thank you Rick. Your opinion is appreciated.
ReplyDeleteHmmm...why do I doubt that?
ReplyDeleteAnyway, the new images you added only confuse your argument.
The first of the panel suffers from problematic foreshortening. I believe that the artist wanted to get the idea across of the claws really coming out at the viewer, but because they taper back down to points, it's very difficult to accomplish this. I think if he had also brought the fists closer to the reader, the point would have been taken (no pun intended).
The second panel is drawn from Daken's perspective. Nothing can really be said for this one simply because Daken isn't present for a size comparison between himself and his weapons.
The last panel is a motion sequence. The artist is really trying to get across a sense of movement; note all the action lines and the massive length of the character's arm. Probably would have been a better choice to break that panel into 3 individual ones showing Daken pulling back to strike, a close-up of his claws shooting in for the kill (with motion lines), and the final impact (without the extendo-impact arm seen in this last panel).
Also, you linked to a wiki about Daken. I suggest you reread this section of it:
"The texture appears to be porous and dark in color quite like the claws Wolverine possesses in their natural bone state, as seen in Wolverine: Origin."
They are dark, naturally ferrous in composition - but never once was the work "black" used to describe them.
Also, in the examples shown above, Daken seems to be masquerading as Wolverine, so maybe he found some way to change the color of his claws to complete the package.
Overall, I think you're being a little to critical. Why spend the time and money to read comic books if they just piss you off?
I would just like to add that Daken as a character is just plain horribly lame. The time spent with this ceaseless back & forth banter would be much better spent talking about Lockjaw, Crimson Dynamo or a myriad of other characters.
ReplyDeleteRick: My opinion. In all fairness I have most of the appearances of Daken published and those drawings are the some of the worst of him I've seen. Was trying to be funny/have fun. Lesson learned. Done.
ReplyDeleteMurphy: There's an upcoming issue of Lockjaw and the Pet Avengers which features both Lockjaw and Giganto the Super Whale Monster. Total win in the lamest of ways.
Coach:
ReplyDeleteI demand that issue! The sheer thought of it is making me moist.